Curse

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

I like being a rich boy.

Then that is your choice. If you choose to just do nothing but save money so you can stare at it and say "Yay I'm rich" then so be it. The rest of us will spend our money and enjoy what we earn, instead of letting it sit there collecting dust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie_of_doom

Anet didn't force you to hang onto gold either. Your argument isn't very solid. While it may seem as though gold is a natural valuta, ectos and ambraces or whatever have become so as well.

Umm yes they did. Gold is the form of currency for this game. You actually NEED gold to buy things, unlike ecto or armbraces. Players made ecto and armbraces a form of currency, not Anet. If you visit a Merchant and choose to shop, what do they require for you to buy something? GOLD. So saying we are not forced to use gold and hang onto it, is completely wrong.

clear · Dec 11, 2010, 02:51 AM // 02:51

If it isn't broke don't fix it.

gremlin · Dec 11, 2010, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Lot of denial in this game and the ecto fans are becoming like oil companies in the real world.
Hey I got a way to run a car on grass result mass panic as the oil companies start their spin on the media to stop it in its tracks.

So to in this game we have the ectos and the cappers two sides with differing viewpoints.
Who can deny that if you were setting up a game from scratch you would set up coins of sufficient values top allow for any trade eventuality.

Here we have the multi stage rejection of any plans to alter what we have now.

Stage one "There isn't a problem"
So you get posts pointing out how you think there is a problem.

Stage two "anything you do will cause a massive price drop and players will suffer"
So you alter your ideas to keep the value of players current stockpiles.

stage three "anet designed rare materials to be used in trade"
Well maybe they did I wasn't at any of the policy meetings when they decided that.
I am pretty sure they never imagined anyone playing the game for 5 years or at least the pve part of it and so never thought anyone would ever need more than the present gold cap.

What we do have is a lot of unhappy people and neither side wants to see the other win.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 11, 2010, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Umm yes they did. Gold is the form of currency for this game. You actually NEED gold to buy things, unlike ecto or armbraces. Players made ecto and armbraces a form of currency, not Anet. If you visit a Merchant and choose to shop, what do they require for you to buy something? GOLD. So saying we are not forced to use gold and hang onto it, is completely wrong.

Again HELLO Torment weapons, Obsidian Armor and Chaos gloves, High-end, prestige items that can be bought using these. That's why they are valuable in the first place.. If someone said: OMG that armor that uses silk looks SOO cool and Prestige, and everyone would want it, silk would go skyhigh and it would be a currency as well.
Spyder, can you please stop saying buying ecto is stupid, because that only proves that you never put any thought into this..
And btw, it's not like the richies don't spend their money.. I've been hanging around my 600e for a while now, going under and above it every now and then, and I buy shitloads of stuff. I buy a stack of Lockpicks every week to go chestrunning.
And, buy a title etc, most of us already are GWAMM, I've been GWAMM for almost 2y.. I have 50 HoM points etc, there just isn't much more for us to do. I just earn a little more money that i spend every now and then, and it's stockpiling, that's how savings work..
Arachnid, please tell me that IRL you spend every cent the moment you get it, because saving is holding back economy, that would make sense at least..
And, comparing this to IRL does make sense, cause this economy, and every MMORPG economy for that matter works in a very similar way (supply-demand curves etc)
So, raising gold cap to infinity and raping ecto's still doesn't make sense, and if you thickheaded idiots would at least do the effort to read through all the arguments stated here by me and many others, you would come to the conclusion that they make sense. But you don't, and it kind of figures...

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Again HELLO Torment weapons, Obsidian Armor and Chaos gloves, High-end, prestige items that can be bought using these. That's why they are valuable in the first place.. If someone said: OMG that armor that uses silk looks SOO cool and Prestige, and everyone would want it, silk would go skyhigh and it would be a currency as well.
Spyder, can you please stop saying buying ecto is stupid, because that only proves that you never put any thought into this..
And btw, it's not like the richies don't spend their money.. I've been hanging around my 600e for a while now, going under and above it every now and then, and I buy shitloads of stuff. I buy a stack of Lockpicks every week to go chestrunning.
And, buy a title etc, most of us already are GWAMM, I've been GWAMM for almost 2y.. I have 50 HoM points etc, there just isn't much more for us to do. I just earn a little more money that i spend every now and then, and it's stockpiling, that's how savings work..
Arachnid, please tell me that IRL you spend every cent the moment you get it, because saving is holding back economy, that would make sense at least..
And, comparing this to IRL does make sense, cause this economy, and every MMORPG economy for that matter works in a very similar way (supply-demand curves etc)
So, raising gold cap to infinity and raping ecto's still doesn't make sense, and if you thickheaded idiots would at least do the effort to read through all the arguments stated here by me and many others, you would come to the conclusion that they make sense. But you don't, and it kind of figures...

First off, insulting everyone and calling us all "thinkheaded idiots" isn't a good way to get your point across. Let's stick to the debate, and leave the name calling out of it. There is no reason for that.

I never said buying ecto was stupid, and I never said using it for currency was stupid either. Learn to read. I said if the gold cap is raised and we lose money cause we invested our money into a crafting material, we have no one to blame but ourselves. I never said we shouldn't do it and I never said those who do invest their money in ecto are stupid.

Ecto is used for alot more than just a community based "currency". Yes you can buy items with ecto and armbraces. I know this already. That's like saying because I can exchange truffles for a weapon at a collector, they should become the new currency. If that was the case, every single crafting material would be a currency that we use to pay for things. Which, it isn't. The only things the community sees as viable options for currency is gold, platinum, ecto, and armbraces.

Sure, save your money. There is nothing wrong with that. Not all of us are fortunate to have billions of gold lying around that is just pocket change to us. Some of us still have things to spend our money on. I'm not saying to go waste all of your money on whatever you can think of. If you have tons of money stockpiled up, good for you. And comparing this to real life? Seriously? It's a VIDEO GAME. AND in real life, there is no limit to how much money you can have. In Guild Wars, there is a limit. You can't compare a video game and real life and say "Oh you waste all your money in a video game, so you must do that in real life". that is the most stupidest statement I have ever heard. It's a VIDEO GAME.

And if they raise the gold cap, then let them. If it affects the price of ectos and armbraces, so be it. I have ecto, I have armbraces, but oh well. If I lose money cause I thought I could use some random material as a form of currency, then that is my fault. Like I said a million times over, Anet isn't responsible for us making ecto and armbraces currency. The only TRUE currency is gold and platinum. It is the community who makes ecto and armbraces worth something, not Anet. For all we know, Wood Planks could become the next currency. Let's all start investing our money into Bolts of Cloth. Make it the new currency. The economy of this game is player driven, and if Anet decides that we need more space to store gold, then so be it. Then we won't have to rely on crafting materials and collector items to be currency.

The only reason you are so against it, is because you have a ton of ecto and armbraces and you don't want them to become useless if the gold cap is raised. The gold cap needs to be raised so we aren't forced to use random items as currency. With the cap raised, we can actually have our gold and platinum instead of relying on some random ingame item to pose as money.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 11, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I'm not gonna try to explain this again...
/unsigned, noone is listening to anything I or anyone else is saying about how economy works and how this makes perfect sense, so leave it...

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 10:13 PM // 22:13

It is simple.

We shouldn't have to rely on random items to be currency. The currency is gold and platinum. But since we have a cap on that, we had to rely on something else to hold our money. We shouldn't have to. We should be able to use gold and platinum to buy whatever we want without having to rely on some random ingame item as money cause we are limited on how much we can carry.

Instead of thinking of your greed and going "Oh don't raise it, cause now I will be poor", think about the logic. There should be no reason for us to use ecto and armbraces as currency. We have gold, we have platinum. Substituting some random item for money is not what we should be doing. We should be able to carry as much gold and platinum as we can, without having to resort to random items as currency.

This, makes perfect sense. If you want a real life comparison, go try it out for yourself. Try to go buy your groceries with a bolt of cloth. Tell me how that goes. I'm betting it won't go over so well. In real life, you have to only use money. I'm sure you can't go to your friend and go "Hey I'll buy your Xbox off you for 250 pieces of cloth". You are likely to be laughed at.

Same goes for game as well. We shouldn't have a gold cap. We should be able to buy whatever we want with gold and store as much gold as we have without having to resort to random items for currency.

*lemming* · Dec 11, 2010, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Instead of thinking of your greed and going "Oh don't raise it, cause now I will be poor", think about the logic. There should be no reason for us to use ecto and armbraces as currency. We have gold, we have platinum. Substituting some random item for money is not what we should be doing. We should be able to carry as much gold and platinum as we can, without having to resort to random items as currency.

This, makes perfect sense. If you want a real life comparison, go try it out for yourself. Try to go buy your groceries with a bolt of cloth. Tell me how that goes. I'm betting it won't go over so well. In real life, you have to only use money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Quote:

The term fiat money is used to mean:

* any money declared by a government to be legal tender.

I don't get your point, seeing as this is not a government, nor is it treated as one. It is a video game. Fiat Money holds no grounds in this debate.

If you want to go with that, then sure. But it is still the same argument. Our "government" (Anet) declared that Platinum and Gold is legal tender in the video game. SOCIETY, claims ecto and armbraces are. Our "government" has put a cap on the amount of LEGAL tender we can have.

So, lift the cap so we can start using our LEGAL tender instead of resorting to what society claims is real money. Either way, it is still the same point. We shouldn't have to resort to random items as money. Lifting the cap will fix that issue.

*lemming* · Dec 11, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

You are very good at selective reading.

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

You are very good at selective reading.

Well then how about you actually explain your point instead of throwing up some random link, expecting all of us instantly to know exactly what you are talking about?

Instead of commenting on my reading skills, how about actually staying on topic and commenting on the topic? Or do you feel making a personal remark about my reading is important to this thread?

My opinion still stands. We shouldn't have to resort to using random items in game as currency. The cap on gold should be raised or removed so we can use it for what it was meant to be used for, and not have to be resort to using random items.

So, /signed to the idea of raising/removing the gold cap.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 11, 2010, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

I don't get your point, seeing as this is not a government, nor is it treated as one. It is a video game. Fiat Money holds no grounds in this debate.

If you want to go with that, then sure. But it is still the same argument. Our "government" (Anet) declared that Platinum and Gold is legal tender in the video game. SOCIETY, claims ecto and armbraces are. Our "government" has put a cap on the amount of LEGAL tender we can have.

So, lift the cap so we can start using our LEGAL tender instead of resorting to what society claims is real money. Either way, it is still the same point. We shouldn't have to resort to random items as money. Lifting the cap will fix that issue.

So, Ecto and armbrace are illegal? Djee, a lot accounts need to be banned then..

SpyderArachnid · Dec 11, 2010, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

So, Ecto and armbrace are illegal? Djee, a lot accounts need to be banned then..

Whoever said it was illegal? We trade ecto/armbraces between each other. We don't use them as currency to our government do we? Our government only accept the legal tender, which in this case would be platinum and gold.

But we as a society accept trade options with ecto and armbraces. But we also use the legal tender that was given to us by our government.

Our government doesn't say we can't trade between each other, so therefore, it isn't illegal. So instead of the sarcastic remark, think about it next time.

Bright Star Shine · Dec 11, 2010, 11:56 PM // 23:56

And, howmany times do I need to say that Anet DID intend this to happen? They aren't a bunch of retards you know.. There are actually people that studied economics over there that come up with ideas like this.. This isn't coincidence..

And fyi, GW is semi-based on medieval society. And there, you COULD go into a store and buy something with a piece of cloth, so again, INTENDED!!

Lord Mip · Dec 12, 2010, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

It is simple.

We shouldn't have to rely on random items to be currency. The currency is gold and platinum. But since we have a cap on that, we had to rely on something else to hold our money. We shouldn't have to. We should be able to use gold and platinum to buy whatever we want without having to rely on some random ingame item as money cause we are limited on how much we can carry.

Instead of thinking of your greed and going "Oh don't raise it, cause now I will be poor", think about the logic. There should be no reason for us to use ecto and armbraces as currency. We have gold, we have platinum. Substituting some random item for money is not what we should be doing. We should be able to carry as much gold and platinum as we can, without having to resort to random items as currency.

This, makes perfect sense. If you want a real life comparison, go try it out for yourself. Try to go buy your groceries with a bolt of cloth. Tell me how that goes. I'm betting it won't go over so well. In real life, you have to only use money. I'm sure you can't go to your friend and go "Hey I'll buy your Xbox off you for 250 pieces of cloth". You are likely to be laughed at.

Same goes for game as well. We shouldn't have a gold cap. We should be able to buy whatever we want with gold and store as much gold as we have without having to resort to random items for currency.

I would trade my xbox for 250 globs of radioactive ectoplasm IRL

SpyderArachnid · Dec 12, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

And, howmany times do I need to say that Anet DID intend this to happen? They aren't a bunch of retards you know.. There are actually people that studied economics over there that come up with ideas like this.. This isn't coincidence..

Then please, show me exactly where Anet states that Ecto and Armbraces were "intended" to be a form of currency. Show me where Anet says that we were supposed to use them for currency. Show me where Anet says that because there is a cap on gold, that they "intended" for us to start using Ecto and Armbraces as currency. Show proof of Anet making the decision to start using these items as currency, and not the player base making this decision.

Once you can show proof of them actually saying that, then I'll believe you. Seeing as Armbraces weren't introduced into the game till Nightfall, I find it hard to believe that all this time Anet "intended" for us to use them as currency.

clear · Dec 12, 2010, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Then please, show me exactly where Anet states that Ecto and Armbraces were "intended" to be a form of currency. Show me where Anet says that we were supposed to use them for currency. Show me where Anet says that because there is a cap on gold, that they "intended" for us to start using Ecto and Armbraces as currency. Show proof of Anet making the decision to start using these items as currency, and not the player base making this decision.

Once you can show proof of them actually saying that, then I'll believe you. Seeing as Armbraces weren't introduced into the game till Nightfall, I find it hard to believe that all this time Anet "intended" for us to use them as currency.

They intended it to be this way or it wouldn't be that way. What more proof do you want. The economy is pretty stable in Guild Wars or they would have fixed it.

SpyderArachnid · Dec 12, 2010, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by clear

They intended it to be this way or it wouldn't be that way. What more proof do you want. The economy is pretty stable in Guild Wars or they would have fixed it.

Actually, Anet didn't expect you to need more than one million gold. You can buy whatever you want in the game with one million gold. That is not counting the player based market.

It is the players that made stuff require us to need more than one million gold. The community has made stuff so expensive, that we need more than the cap can give us, so we had to resort to other things to use as currency.

It wasn't Anet who made stuff expensive that we had to resort to random items for currency. You can buy anything in game with one million gold that Anet provides. That is counting weapons, armor, skills, etc.

It is only when you trade with the community and use the community set prices, that you need more than one million gold. We are the ones that are forcing ourselves to use random items as currency, not Anet. Anet is not making stuff so expensive that we need more than the cap can give us. The community is making it that way.

gremlin · Dec 12, 2010, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I doubt this will ever change in the game because anet do not seem to be interested in moving the economy away from ecos and many players want enormous game resources.

The object of the game at the moment seems to be fill the HOM on all accounts owned and to gain gwamm on every character.
Least that seems to be a common ideal when you listen to many players.

I do not care what monetarist theories amateur economists spout on this thread.
Or how inflation works in the real world or what dire consequences are being forecast if we make an alteration to the currency.
Or even flat statements that anet will never do xxx its all pointless.

Whatever changes are made the game economy will eventually stabilise it always does, beside we have been told for years that the game economy is broken.
If the current economy is broken why not try to fix it.

There will always be the suspicion possibly untrue that the real reason is players want to use rare materials to power trade their way to vast game wealth then use that to effectively buy the game.

Good luck to them.

clear · Dec 12, 2010, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

Actually, Anet didn't expect you to need more than one million gold. You can buy whatever you want in the game with one million gold. That is not counting the player based market.

It is the players that made stuff require us to need more than one million gold. The community has made stuff so expensive, that we need more than the cap can give us, so we had to resort to other things to use as currency.

It wasn't Anet who made stuff expensive that we had to resort to random items for currency. You can buy anything in game with one million gold that Anet provides. That is counting weapons, armor, skills, etc.

It is only when you trade with the community and use the community set prices, that you need more than one million gold. We are the ones that are forcing ourselves to use random items as currency, not Anet. Anet is not making stuff so expensive that we need more than the cap can give us. The community is making it that way.

Actually Anet did intend for you to have more than 1,000k or else they would not allow your players to carry 100k each... Besides, the only reason the in game items have gone up is because the amount of time people have put into this game causing the items to go up in value. If this were not the case then everyone would loss interest in this game and no longer have any motivation to play it. Also you are right you can buy any maxed weapon in game for any price you want, thank god for collector items.